Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Discuss the latest happenings in Impact Wrestling. Share your thoughts, opinions, etc...
User avatar
El Canuck
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 64239
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:15 am
Contact:

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by El Canuck » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:54 am

I disagree. I have friends regularly involved in and have been booked in British promotions. The PROGRESS Wrestling promotion over there is a pretty big draw, as is Attack Pro Wrestling. Even Welsh Wrestling in Wales draws good gates with regularity. (Mind you they're in bingo hall sized venues) but still, the indy scene is there. It doesn't get the attention that North American indy wrestling gets, especially on our side of the pond, but to say it's not there is disingenuous at best.
Image

As of April 1st, 2016,the first entry in my Gold & Steel fantasy series, As Fierce as Steel, is on sale. Visit www.thegoldandsteelsaga.com for more!

User avatar
Greg_McNeish
Posts: 42942
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:39 pm
Twitter: GregMcNeishWV
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by Greg_McNeish » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:39 am

Disingenuous? I hope that's misused, because it's a nasty allegation, if you meant it. I'm almost assuredly ignorant of whatever British indy wrestling does exist. I'm more assuredly not being disingenuous.
Image

Greg McNeish - Grand Chancellor

User avatar
El Canuck
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 64239
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:15 am
Contact:

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by El Canuck » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:55 am

In retrospect, ignorant was definitely the more appropriate choice of word in this context and I apologise for the misnomer.
Image

As of April 1st, 2016,the first entry in my Gold & Steel fantasy series, As Fierce as Steel, is on sale. Visit www.thegoldandsteelsaga.com for more!

User avatar
Greg_McNeish
Posts: 42942
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:39 pm
Twitter: GregMcNeishWV
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by Greg_McNeish » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:27 am

If there is a thriving indy scene, then perhaps there would be a market to support something on a larger scale. Attracting talent with real name value would certainly be an issue, and I'm skeptical the country could support a rigorous touring schedule, but with the right conditions, maybe there could be something to it. The television market isn't something I'd expect to be favourable, though. American TV has more money in it than the entire television industry outside it, and no American television station with any buying power would invest in a startup British promotion, when there are American alternatives at the ready (and there always are).

Plenty of logistical nightmares to overcome, even if my assumptions on the live audience demand were inaccurate.
Image

Greg McNeish - Grand Chancellor

User avatar
El Canuck
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 64239
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:15 am
Contact:

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by El Canuck » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:00 pm

I don't know that they would need to worry about pushing their product into the American market at all. As for attracting talent, Attack and Progress both bring in "TV names" on the regular as it is. Getting them in on a recurring basis may be a bit more work and more expensive than it would be for TNA or RoH on airfare alone. But while that sort of thing would be a logistical issue, I would hardly call it a nightmare. The thing to consider with most wrestlers is that while being on the road in the U.S. and Canada constantly is seen as a drag, the idea of crossing an ocean is seen as something entirely different. A working vacation of sorts. Then there's the guys who originate from there like Drew Galloway who would see it as an extended, paid trip home. So, it would hold appeal for a lot of workers from here to go there. Also, at this stage, any company with a TV presence would not only do well touring the U.K., they'd do well doing sporadic tours in all of Western Europe, possibly even into Eastern Europe in countries like Czech Republic, Slovakia and Estonia. That whole market is starved for brand name wrestling and a company that would already be based in the U.K. would have a much easier time of it than say TNA or RoH in capitalizing on that market.
Image

As of April 1st, 2016,the first entry in my Gold & Steel fantasy series, As Fierce as Steel, is on sale. Visit www.thegoldandsteelsaga.com for more!

User avatar
Big slim
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 20520
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:56 pm
Twitter: Jamel727
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by Big slim » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:51 pm

This is the most interesting back and forth discussion on the TNA Forum in a long time.
Image


Jamel Watson (Big slim) - Executive Vice President of Talent Relations

Check out my new blog, Macho Mars at www.machomars.blog!

User avatar
Greg_McNeish
Posts: 42942
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:39 pm
Twitter: GregMcNeishWV
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by Greg_McNeish » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:12 pm

The reason I mentioned American TV is because that's where the money is. Television rights are where the money comes from for big staging, lights, and production equipment/personnel. Major TV money, more than anything else, is what separates indy wrestling from "mainstream" wrestling (that's a shit term for it, but I don't know if we have a good one), and that simply doesn't exist outside America, unless you're talking about immediately getting pan-European coverage, and that's a pipe dream.

As for talent thinking of a trip to the UK as more of a working vacation, that's absolutely the mindset... of people who aren't making a long-term, permanent commitment to working and probably living there. In order to support a big production company like what you talked about, you need to be on the road as much as possible, not just because that's how your workers get paid, but because live shows are merch movers, and a touring presence is important for building brand loyalty. So, what you'd be asking people to do is fundamentally different than taking a trip to the UK is now, for foreign workers. You'd be asking them to MOVE there. I'm sure plenty of people would be interested in doing so, but a heck of a lot of people wouldn't, especially not before the company has proven its sticking power. That's not even getting into the more involved process of immigration, compared to the relatively easy working visa process for short trips.

So, yeah, logistical nightmare.
Image

Greg McNeish - Grand Chancellor

User avatar
El Canuck
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 64239
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:15 am
Contact:

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by El Canuck » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:54 pm

A wrestling company airing across Europe would have no more reason to depend on American TV than the Japanese companies do. In the hypothetical I proposed, this company would be filling the time slots across the various sports stations in Europe that would be left vacant by TNA. So yes, they would have TNA's previous coverage. If TNA shuts down with its TV contracts in Europe still standing then a startup company with deep enough pockets could feasibly enter into an agreement for those slots with those stations.

Back to the talent again, the reasonable thing to do would be to run the promotion like a sports league or sitcom/drama TV show and run it in season. You fill your roster primarily with European talent and those living in the U.S. and Canada with dual citizenship in European countries. As for non-Europeans, you bring them in as "Extended guests" and keep them as long as a work visa will allow. (Usually about 3 months if I'm not mistaken) If you go with a seasonal schedule, start at the first of March, run to the end of October. That's eight out of twelve months the company is running. You space out your visa talent over those eight months so that you've always got enough of them on hand at any given time to work with your local talent without having to worry about immigration issues. The talent issue would be no more of a nightmare than it is already for any of the Japanese promotions that have Gaijins on their rosters. They're just crossing a different ocean to get to their workplace.
Image

As of April 1st, 2016,the first entry in my Gold & Steel fantasy series, As Fierce as Steel, is on sale. Visit www.thegoldandsteelsaga.com for more!

User avatar
Greg_McNeish
Posts: 42942
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:39 pm
Twitter: GregMcNeishWV
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by Greg_McNeish » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:40 pm

Gaijin talent who work more than just one day a month typically immigrate to Japan. They've also got deep television pockets, and run almost exclusively in scummy little venues that cost nothing. That's the kind of product that model can afford, with New Japan being the only exception, and even they run most of their shows on a shoestring budget, in gymnasiums that look like shit. The gaijin aren't the stars of the show, don't have to carry any of the load as touring draws, and aren't structural to the companies' rosters. That's a pretty key difference. You're talking about using a model that works to AUGMENT a roster, and use it as a primary tool to BUILD the roster. TNA took years to build all those European TV contacts, and they did it by being able to promise Kurt Angle and Jeff Hardy as stars of the show. Your hypothetical is built around all those same contacts giving time and money to a brand new company who can promise that one guy from 3MB as a star, with special guest appearances of people anybody actually cares about. That is a MASSIVE difference.
Image

Greg McNeish - Grand Chancellor

User avatar
El Canuck
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 64239
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:15 am
Contact:

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by El Canuck » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:56 pm

It wouldn't be just Drew though, even a cursory glance through a list of available (counting TNA guys in this case as TNA would be gone) U.K. wrestlers, this promotion would have a talent pool consisting of but not limited to:

- Drew Galloway
- Mark Haskins
- Mandrews
- Doug Williams
- Mason Ryan
- Rockstar Spud
- Rob Terry
- Magnus

That's what you start with as your core British upper card, use them to build up the indy workers. Mix that with the come-from-aways that could help augment that roster.

I believe the proper word is emigrate, btw and in actual fact the gaijins usually don't do that.
Image

As of April 1st, 2016,the first entry in my Gold & Steel fantasy series, As Fierce as Steel, is on sale. Visit www.thegoldandsteelsaga.com for more!

User avatar
Greg_McNeish
Posts: 42942
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:39 pm
Twitter: GregMcNeishWV
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by Greg_McNeish » Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:56 am

Right, there are more guys than just Drew Galloway. Of that list, the guy with the most mainstream exposure is... the guy that was in 3MB (and an Intercontinental Champion, etc. I do love me some DRUUUUUU). If you're pitching a show to television executives, they look at that list, and see nobodies. They can't market a mainstream television program around that, in the way that Impact has been marketed around Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, Bully Ray to an extent, and the only successfully built talents TNA ever produced, AJ Styles & Samoa Joe. Unless you're coming to the table with at least one of them as a centrepiece, who will be there week in and week out (not necessarily doing anything, but being a major feature every week), then you're pitching an indy wrestling show, and they'll find some other genre to fill the time slot. There needs to be some actual star power on the permanent roster, or else there's nothing for guest stars to augment.

As for gaijin, I did say that those who work more regularly than once a month tend to emigrate (I had the wrong word, thank you). I suppose I should have also excluded people who work short tours, once or twice a year, like Chris Hero & Corl Cabana have done the past couple years for NOAH's Global League. The vast majority of gaijin only work PPVs or tournaments; they're not part of the companies' regular rosters, which is what I was trying to get across. For live dates, and most TV shows, you've only got the native roster to work with, so for a British company, they'd have to be able to carry TV with only the folks that live there. And of that minority of gaijin who are regular parts of the Japanese rosters, they do tend to emigrate, as Karl Anderson, TMDK, Joe Doering, and the gaijin young lions have done, among others.

All of which is to say that the primary issue facing a potential company of this nature is convincing an existing star with enough mainstream name value to convince TV execs to take a chance on a startup wrestling show to sign on full-time with them, likely including emigrating to the UK. With today's climate, that basically means getting one of Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, maybe Rey Mysterio, or getting lucky with a WWE release up their card. Do that, and maybe British TV wrestling could work. Don't do that, and literally everything else is moot.
Image

Greg McNeish - Grand Chancellor

User avatar
GooberBM
VIP Member
Posts: 36825
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:57 pm

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by GooberBM » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:05 am

There would be merit to running a modified version of the the Japanese schedule, with the native roster carrying any touring in mostly scuzzy buildings, while bringing in the star power for short bursts where you tape far ahead of schedule.

Hell, GFW doesn't even have a US tv contract and has months of tv pre-taped for when they do. If this hypothetical company taped ahead of time like any kind of normal tv show does, then you could mitigate the gap of not having "star talent" at all times to a degree
Image

Brandon Morrison - Chief of Staff and Forum Attaché to the Grand Chancellor

User avatar
Greg_McNeish
Posts: 42942
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:39 pm
Twitter: GregMcNeishWV
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by Greg_McNeish » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:01 am

This is true. If you crammed in a couple months of tapings at a time, you could make I work. Difficult to produce compelling television like that, though, but you could do enough to sustain the sorts of deals TNA has been able to acquire, which aren't exactly the most primetime slots you could imagine. I'm skeptical how well a model like that could build brand loyalty, however, with the touring shows lacking the star power. Fans might end up feeling cheated.
Image

Greg McNeish - Grand Chancellor

User avatar
El Canuck
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 64239
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:15 am
Contact:

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by El Canuck » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:49 am

If they were North American fans in the major centers, yes, I agree that they would feel cheated. However, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the British/European fans. Which, as a Newfoundlander, I can do quite easily as the last time WWE came even remotely near the island was a decade ago and even then they only ever ran house shows here rarely. If they've got a British company that's all over TV in the U.K. and the rest of Europe with the production values and star power of TNA and you run a tour into a place like Sligo, Ireland or Aberdeen, Scotland the fans there, much like the fans in St. John's, are to come out in droves no matter who you advertise simply because of the sheer lack of anything else visiting and the drawing power of a televised promotion. As long as you don't overdo it and spoil the markets with constant tours, (Like I said, season scheduling is your friend here) then you've got a long term viable market.

Yes, granted, the cumulative star power of that native roster wouldn't add up to what an American promotion could pull off, but as Goober said, you bring in your centerpieces when you can (Greg keeps mentioning Jeff Hardy, btw, I should point out that TNA can't even use him when they cross the pond as he's got a criminal record and can't enter the U.K.) as time, money and visas will allow and use their drawing power to help build up the face value of your native roster until someone like "The Pride of Wales" Eddie Dennis is just as much a draw as anyone else on my list.

In the meantime, you keep rotating in other non-Europeans (let's just call them Gaijins for the sake of argument going forward) with drawing power and keep augmenting what you got. You don't need to load the roster with names either, as long as you've got one or two decent draws on your card any time you tour (not including native talent like Drew or Magnus, who is bigger in the U.K. than you might think simply due to the fact that TNA was more over there than it was here) then you've got more than enough drawing power to pack a scuzzy venue just about anywhere in Europe.
Image

As of April 1st, 2016,the first entry in my Gold & Steel fantasy series, As Fierce as Steel, is on sale. Visit www.thegoldandsteelsaga.com for more!

User avatar
GooberBM
VIP Member
Posts: 36825
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:57 pm

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by GooberBM » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:02 pm

If anyone out there would like to give a word on what Lucha Underground's taping schedule was like, that would be the starting point of what I'd build a taping system out of
Image

Brandon Morrison - Chief of Staff and Forum Attaché to the Grand Chancellor

User avatar
isrs4life
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 16589
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:41 pm
Location: Freddy Beach

Re: Matt Hardy your new tna world champ

Post by isrs4life » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:26 pm

Look at that he's the champ again :) he beat ec3 after brodus clay turned on him.
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests