New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by DaddyEccentric » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:56 pm

I just feel 4 PPV's a year means shit when fans have to wait for months to see a big altercation that isn't really epic because the storylines run their course, get too convoluted or the roster is WAY too thin! Not to mention by the time the 4 PPV's show up, you may get the same match up's rather than that fresh match up that was smack bam in between that PPV gap!
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Greg_McNeish » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:02 pm

Well, yeah. TNA moved to 4 PPVs per year, but haven't changed their booking to match. I mean, Slammiversary had 74-year old Sting in the main event, for fuck's sake.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:10 pm

Greg_McNeish wrote:She didn't say "grow the PPV business". She said "grow TNA". Their TV deals make them money. Their PPVs were losing them money, as the cost of running 12 shows in a year wasn't being met by costs (we don't have actual figures, but that's the consensus of people that are supposed insiders). Your math is right for retaining revenue, but isn't taking into consideration costs. They don't need to recoup all the lost revenue of the 8 cancelled shows. They kept their top selling shows, and reduced the costs of running PPVs by over half.

The PPV business won't grow with this move, but if this move transformed that portion of the business from a money sink to at least breaking even, then it will, indeed, help to "grow TNA".

Not that any of that matters, if they bleed money everywhere else, of course....
It's not growth to make less money than you used too on an asset that is very important in the wrestling business.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Greg_McNeish » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:23 pm

If they used to lose $4 million per year, but now lose $1 million per year, then they ARE making more money on PPVs.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by DaddyEccentric » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:36 pm

It'll be fun to watch the remaining One night only PPV's with some of the talent still on the show who have been released
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:25 pm

But that's just purely hypothetical. They are running less PPVs because there's not enough demand for them, sure running less means they spend less but it also means they get less in return.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Greg_McNeish » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:32 pm

The numbers were completely hypothetical. The argument was not.
Greg_McNeish wrote:Their PPVs were losing them money, as the cost of running 12 shows in a year wasn't being met by sales (we don't have actual figures, but that's the consensus of people that are supposed insiders)
They weren't making a profit on PPVs, so they weren't getting anything in return for running them. They're not getting LESS nothing than they were before. So, this...
Red_And_Yellow wrote:They are running less PPVs because there's not enough demand for them, sure running less means they spend less but it also means they get less in return.
... is false.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:42 pm

I don't see how what we are saying is incompatible?

TNA might be spending less money on PPVs but they are also making less money on PPVs than they were before, which was my point.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:42 pm

But either way, it isn't helping TNA grow by having less PPVs, that doesn't make sense.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Greg_McNeish » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:44 pm

So, businesses shouldn't cut down on ventures that are doing poorly, to focus on what they do well, in order to try branching into new ventures that they hope will do really well? I'm pretty sure that's how all good businesses operate (not that I'm trying to imply that TNA is a good business *shudder*).

It sounds like you're really attached to the PPV model, for wrestling. There's no reason why a wrestling company has to run PPVs, to be successful, or even to be big, national/international entities. TNA is a televised wrestling company. By cutting down on PPVs, they've been able to shift more of the promotional focus onto Impact, which is BY FAR the biggest revenue vehicle they have. They've taken a successful television show (1 million weekly viewers, on a network that simply doesn't touch that range normally) on the road, where they're consistently putting 2-4 thousand paying customers in the seats, every 2 weeks. Not only is that good for the reasons of selling tickets, but live shows are merchandise drivers (the rule of thumb for touring shows — musical, magical, wrestling, whatever — is that ticket sales should cover costs, while merchandise should push profits).

Compared to running a theme park, and not selling tickets, that sounds dangerously close to being "growth".
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:01 am

For an American promotion to be successful on the national level, they need to have a strong PPV model and one that can receive good buyrates (we don't know what their buyrates are since they are private but we can at least assume they aren't good when they chop 8 per year). Sure, a company like ROH can exist in its niche market of iPPVs (I would consider ROH national at this point) and things like that but ROH is also a niche company tailored to a niche market, so they will have a successful promotion so long as their niche market exists.

I'm not saying taking away expenses is not a way to help growth (so long as the focus goes to an area of the business which is growing, that is not the case here, their TV ratings are the same, their house show/tv attendances are the same, that's not growth, they just are losing less than they were before) but the issue is they aren't growing at all. They took away 8 PPVs not to supplement growth, to stop costs because they aren't bringing in the necessary revenue to keep it going. However, just chopping costs does not necessitate growth, growth happens when the business is expanding, not contracting (so if they took that money from PPV tapings to invest in a growing asset, then yes, chopping PPVs would have helped grow TNA but they aren't growing at all, it's the same model as before, just with less PPVs). Their TV business isn't expanding, they lose a lot of money on that as well. They spend $600k per TV taping, which leads me to wonder how the hell are they spending that much for one night? Their production values aren't that great, they aren't renting expensive arenas, and their talent is under contract (are they really making THAT much to cause that sort of expenditure?), so their assets to travel on the road must be absurdly high.

The problem for TNA's business is that it isn't growing at all (all they've done is chop costs, they haven't reinvested to help another asset grow, they are running the same assets), losing less money doesn't mean it's growing, it just means they've found a temporary bandaid. They are still a very poor business model both behind the scenes and in the actual product they put out.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by TDFG » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:03 pm

While 12 ppv's is to many, 4 isn't enough, TNA should have moved it to 8 PPV's.

The $600k figure per taping also makes me wonder how it's that much, if they want to cut costs, get rid of the early 90's WCW style walkway.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Eboney » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 pm

Hey, when you gotta pay (by choice of course) for Hogan, Sting, Angle, and Hardy.. The well eventually dries up. haha
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by DaddyEccentric » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:31 pm

Surely BIG hyped up matches sell PPV's - in this day and age, people will pay to see A great feud ender on PPV. In TNA it takes forever for a feud to end OR it ends randomly in the middle of the last PPV and the next PPV because the PPV's are too few and far between.

Back in the day, the big matches were built up and reserved for the big 4 PPV's and worked because in between it was just promos or squash matches involving the main draws. We are seeing top matches and tournaments and gimmicks and everything thrown in at a weekly basis to a point where like someone said above, we get a Sting main event on the biggest PPV
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Greg_McNeish » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:37 pm

What really causes that issue is that they've always gone with the Attitude Era style PPV booking, where the PPV ends with a big angle, setting up the next chapter of the story. That was okay (okay-ish, anyway) when they had a show every month, but with this much space in between, the PPVs really have to be played as blow-offs, not transitional pieces.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by DaddyEccentric » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:56 pm

Which doesn't work in TNA because the production value from the lack of imaginative sets, music and lighting to the overly talkative and yappy commentary to the awful way they never let a moment sink in before they fade away or go to a different scene hinders ANY big moment.

Just look at TNA this week, it should have a monumental opening where Sabin is hailed as a hero, but the music is faint, the crowd are so quiet and there is never an epic aura or atmosphere to anything
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by Greg_McNeish » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:13 pm

Not that I would expect the crowd to be all that explosive for the new champ, when they just cheered for him 20 minute beforehand, when he won the damn thing.
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by DaddyEccentric » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:09 am

Yeah those block tapings hurt the product a bit
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Re: New X-Division Championship belt for Destination X

Post by isrs4life » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:03 pm

Manik won the x-division championship in the ultimate x match on impact.
Trent Barretta was in the match also. It wasnt the best ultimate x match
but trent did an awesome type pyledriver on the steel entrance way on manik
but manik fought back and won the x-title when dutt and baretta were already
on top of the ultimat x set up.
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