The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

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The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by El Canuck » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:58 pm

So, Jama gave me this idea of starting threads for our favourite franchises, after I had posted a thread about Assassin's Creed to sort of branch out from the general "What game are you playing?" thread. It dawned on me, there's no thread for Zelda games, and I know we have fans among us. So, I'll start by listing the games of the series, and the one's I've played.

Played to Completion (In most cases many times)
- A Link To The Past
- Ocarina of Time
- Majora's Mask
- The Wind Waker
- Twilight Princess
- The Four Swords
- The Minish Cap
- The Phantom Hourglass

Played, but not to Completion:
- The Legend of Zelda (1st NES game)
- Link's Adventure
- Link's Awakening
- Oracle of Ages

Haven't played at all.
- Oracle of Seasons
- The Spirit Tracks
- Skyward Sword
- The Trio of Evil known as the CD-i Games

Forthcoming Zelda title:
- A Link Between Worlds (A 3DS title that's the sequel to Link to the Past, taking place in the exact same Hyrule map, set six generations ahead of the original, looks great, might be the reason I buy a 3DS.)

So, let's hear your favourite tales from Hyrule and anywhere else Link's ventured.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by Jama7301 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:04 pm

A Link Between Worlds is a game I'm going to get.

Doesn't hurt that my girlfriend wants that limited edition LoZ:ALBW 3DSXL, but has no interest in the oldschool styled Top-Down Zelda games.

As for games I've played,...

Link's Awakening
Link to the Past
Ocarina of Time
TIny bit of Majora's Mask
Most of Minish Cap
Oracle of Ages.

LTTP is an outstanding game in terms of dungeon design and it is my favorite entry into the Zelda series. Followed closely by Link's Awakening. LA is such a good game, and if you get a 3DS, it might be worth a look at on the eShop.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by El Canuck » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:23 pm

You owe it to yourself to track down both Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess, since you've only played a bit of one and none of the latter. It terms of story, Majora's Mask is the darkest, deepest Zelda game I've ever played. It goes right to your core. In that regard, Twilight Princess is to Wind Waker what MM is to OoT in that regard too. Very different turn graphically and story wise from what is the exact same engine in a span of just a few years. It's also the most graphically impressive Zelda game I've ever played. It's also one I mean to give a revisit to soon.

I'd say my top five would have to be:

- Majora's Mask
- Link To The Past
- Ocarina of Time
- Twilight Princess
- Wind Waker/Link's Awakening, tied, I'd probably put LA above WW if I'd finished it.

LTTP was my first Zelda game, it holds a nostalgic place in my heart to be sure, and it's dungeons & story are still so much fun, even after the twentieth time through them.

And that's odd, that your GF won't touch the top down Zelda games but wants the special edition of the new one, which is also top down.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by Jama7301 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:48 pm

She's giving the game-code to me, she wants the 3DS because she loves how it looks, and she loves the 3D Zelda games, with Twilight Princess topping her list.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by Robmayn » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:16 am

Man, playing Majora's Mask gives you a depressing feeling. I mean, it is awesome, but you have a sorrow while playing it, even if you enjoy it. Loved that game. Not many enteretainment products can give you that feeling of enjoying sorrow.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by Jama7301 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:15 am

Dear god. It's just the impending nature of it. Most video games don't have that impending march towards destruction. It's always off on the horizon, but in Majora's Mask, it quantifies exactly how fucked you are.

Persona 3 does this as well, giving you a time limit. Both it and Majora's Mask weave the innate tension of running out of time into gameplay, and it works well.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by El Canuck » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:17 am

That is so true, on both of your accounts. They basically take the polygonal models from Ocarina of Time, make a new world, and put this aura of sorrow over it all. It's central theme is death, mourning and grieving, after all. For a Nintendo 64 game that's some pretty deep stuff right there.

But read this: http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/theme ... s_of_grief

And tell me Majora's Mask doesn't become even more melancholy of a game. But that depth in storytelling, and the entirely different vibe of the game from Ocarina is what endears in to me so much. There's just so much raw emotion on display here, and the makers of it really went all out to make this a much different game, whereas OoT was made to the N64's answer to the question "Can A Link to the Past be topped?" (and it did just that, it's amazing, don't get me wrong), Majora's Mask was a more methodical approach, it was "We've already made the epic adventure game of the Nintendo 64. Let's tell a different story, with Link as the guide."

This has also become one of my favourite songs of the entire Zelda series:



It speaks of sorrow, it speaks of pain, and it speaks of the light at the end of the tunnel.

Trivia: It's also Saria's song backwards.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by BioticZombie » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:07 am

I've only completed A Link to the Past, speaking directly as a huge fan of the SNES.

I'm not a big fan of the Zelda series--it's a cult classic that I never experienced as a kid. But I do have a video game bucket list, and of course, the first priority Zelda games on that radar are, you guessed it, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.

Most people I've talked to recommend playing OoT on its new port on the 3DS, which I've strongly considered. I've personally learned with the N64, I have such a little attention span for its era of graphics when it isn't nostalgic. Buuut MM isn't on 3DS yet, so if I finish OoT on 3DS, I'd have to either 1.) Adjust to the N64 style to play MM, defeating the original purpose of playing OoT on 3DS 2.) Wait for the 3DS port of MM, which has been teased but not confirmed.

At this point, I think I'm going to stick with emulators. I'm going to give OoT a serious playthrough once my Thanksgiving break begins.

I'm really, really nervous about Majora's Mask, however. It's the game I'm most excited to play. The reviews I've read, all the creepy lore for the game itself, the even creepypastas surrounding the game...it's a must-play for me at this point. Even you guys describe it as somber with effective storytelling for spine-tingling moments...I can't wait.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by El Canuck » Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:27 pm

That's neat, the SNES was a console that was out the door when you were born, the N64 was nearly gone by the time you had the motor skills to play video games. But yet, here you are, a fan of something that had no placement in your childhood. Reminds me of my own fandom of the show M*A*S*H.

The N64 and PS1 3D graphics have aged horribly, because they were the first in the 3D line of home consoles (that achieved any success, the Atari Jaguar and the Saturn hit the markets first, but both flopped, the Jaguar flopped far quicker than the Saturn.) The SNES and Sega on the other hand, were the climax of 2D, I saw climax, because any time the N64 or PS1 went with 2D or 3D characters on 2D, like in Mischief Makers, Suikoden 1 & 2, Star Ocean: The Second Story, Xenogears and the like, they turned out looking beautiful. But it wasn't the norm at the time, everyone wanted to make Final Fantasy VII or Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

Now with all that said, of that era, Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask are two of the best looking in the N64's library. I'd only put Banjo Tooie, No Mercy and Perfect Dark near them.

It was an era of rough looking polygons with flat textures thrown on them. BUT! The two Zeldas are still really playable and thoroughly enjoyable once you get into them.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by Robmayn » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:44 pm

The darkest part of Majora´s Mask is not on its adventure, but in its world. There are A LOT of mini-missions (some even taking some more time and effort than some dungeons) with all the characters, and each of them have a special charm.

You even have a guidebook to help you finish all the side-quests (they are 20, they sound not like a lot now, but it takes you a while). And the reward is fantatic (Fierce Deity's Mask). So yeah, the charm of this game is based more on its world rather than its adventure (which is good as well, I remember their Water Temple being more tedious than the one on OoT).

There were even some theories of this being a Parallel Universe. The truth is they recycled the game to make development quicker and faster, boosted the process to use the Expansion Pak and created a new world and story. But it is so mysterious what happened before and after that.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by El Canuck » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:56 pm

The big theory is that this it's

SPOILER ALERT:
SpoilerShow
The conjured up world of a comatose Link who fell from Epona. The characters being the dream world version of the people he knew in Hyrule, the ending being when he finally came to terms with the grief of losing Navi, after going through the five stages of illustrated by Clock town and the surrounding areas (read the link I posted above for a further analysis) and he wakes shortly after.

This explains why Termina never appears in any other Zelda, nor do any of the characters that originated in that game show up anywhere else, except for Tingle. But that could possibly be just a copycat who heard of the character after Link described it from his coma, given that Tingle's next appearance is Wind Waker, which takes place centuries after Ocarina of Time, and he's got a strikingly different face from the one in Majora's Mark.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by Robmayn » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:19 am

TBH, I hate coma theories.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by El Canuck » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:06 am

And I hate Tingle. It's all relative.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by El Canuck » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:16 am

Despite the plausibility of this theory though, the thing that makes me not so ready to latch on to it is that there are other characters besides Tingle that are new and not just copy and pastes from Ocarina of Time, like the Butler Deku, the Deku King and Princess, the monkey, the big simpleton smith (his buddy was in OoT I'm almost 100% sure), the old Goron elder, the baby Goron, the Goron hero, the guitarist Zora, the long haired bassist Zora, the fat drummer Zora, the beavers, the researcher and his daughter in Ikana valley, the moonlight dancer outside Clock town and Kafei. That's not counting boss/miniboss chacters. Granted, we're talking about a high fantasy video game franchise, but in that same breath, the writers took the time to craft a delicate story about the five stages of grieving. I have to think that those same writers would of taken the time or already known that in dreams, you can't conjure anything new, only faces you've already seen before. So, Link conjures a whole range of characters, which seems unlikely.

Now, granted, this is the same franchise that pulled that same trick with
SpoilerShow
Link's Awakening, sorry if this is a twenty year old spoiler, guess what, Mario Bros. 2 was a dream too. :( But yet we still have shy guys and snifts? And the former were central villains in Yoshi's Island. Think about it.
Which is another point both for and against the theory, as you can say "Well, they already did it once." but, the reply is "Yeah, but they already did it once, only four years before, why rehash the unconscious world idea so soon?"

Personally, I think it works against it.

The other thing that makes me vote against it being a coma world, is that in every incarnation of Hyrule before and since (not counting the drowned world of Wind Waker) there's no ocean. We have lake Hyrule as the massive body of water, but otherwise, Hyrule is a landlocked nation. Also, it's only one nation, there has to be a whole world outside it. If Link went far enough in one direction or another away from Hyrule, he's bound to find an ocean, and sure enough, he does, and he finds a whole other nation called Termina sitting right beside it.

Now, the weird thing is that the road that leads to and from Termina is underneath Clock Town, but, I digress, as I think that came long after they had designed the whole world of the game and they didn't want to have to start the story with link crossing over Ikana desert or through the Southern Swamp or some shit to land at Clock Town where the player can go through the tutorial without leaving the town. But this would also explain why it seems so isolated and none of the characters show up anywhere else; it's surrounded by mountains on all sides except for one, and the only passage to the rest of the world and notably the populous Kingdom of Hyrule is through a huge sealed door beneath the town. And the only ones that know the way there are the Happy Mask Salesman and Link, who only happened to stumble upon it while chasing Skull Kid (who until finding Majora's Mask was really just a random skull kid from the forests of Hyrule who likely just stumbled upon Termina himself.)
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by Jama7301 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:46 am

Just an aside, brought on by your Hyrule-is-a-landlocked-nation.

The Zelda timeline is so fucked, with 3 separate timelines coming out of Ocarina of Time.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by El Canuck » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:53 am

Oh, don't even get me started on the Zelda timeline. The whole "the first game in the series is the last" is just an absolute mindfuck. To think that despite all of the effort of the various Links to thwart Ganondorf still result in the post apocalyptic, human-void world of the first Zelda where the only living people are Link himself and a few old feebs living in caves is just...Macabre and depressing, to say the least.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by Jama7301 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:58 am

I will say, the 3 timelines from OoT is great though. That game is the linchpin of the entire timeline.

Timeline that branches off you failing to kill Ganon (spawned by any game over)
Timeline that branches off you beating Ganon (Adult Link Timeline)
Timeline branched from the ending of OoT (avoiding spoiler since someone is playing it).

This leads to everything from Windwaker, to Link to the Past, and almost every other game, and the way that OoT's lore is tied into the older games, meaning they designed the history and world of OoT within the confines of A Link to the Past and such, is outstanding.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by El Canuck » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:18 am

I've only heard of the last two spawning timelines, not the first.

Like in the AVGN's video:

http://cinemassacre.com/2008/01/08/chro ... -timeline/
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by Jama7301 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:25 pm

Yeah, the AVGN one though is from, what, 2006? In the Hyrule Historia, Nintendo revealed the full timeline.

The Failing to Kill Ganon timeline lead to A Link to the Past, because Ganon acquired all the Triforce pieces, followed by Oracle of Ages and Seasons, then Link's Awakening, later by Legend of Zelda, and wrapping up that timeline with Adventures of Link: Zelda II.
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Re: The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Thread

Post by El Canuck » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:24 pm

Ah, see that I didn't know. That makes it interesting.
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