Game Of Thrones

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eobversion1
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by eobversion1 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:28 pm

Didn't realise such a flippant remark had legs like this.

Ultimately when such majestic carnal rewards are in question I would switch to just one mode of thinking.

My reasoning is if I were Tommen, at every turn I'd think to myself "How could I end this as swiftly as possible so that I can get back to banging my wife." Nothing more, nothing less. I'd plot and plot and plot to make sure that happened.
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by El Canuck » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:39 pm

Which is what I think the poor lad was thinking, and his displays of piety were simply to get her, and the brother she so dearly loved, away from the sparrows asap. With Marge safe and happy at the return of Loras, Tommen could get back to business with Marge.
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eobversion1
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by eobversion1 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:03 pm

Moral of the story: He really should have had bigger balls, at least figuratively.
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by GooberBM » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:31 pm

I disagree. I think Tommen was looking for someone to give him real guidance. That Marg used her vag to insert herself...I'm typing this seriously I mean it --oh the dirty jokes; but insert herself into Tommen's mind as his most trustworthy person, after his mom warped and coddled him. Then only to have the High Sparrow manipulating him with Faith, something his mother taught him very little about. The kid wanted a safe place in that crazy world of death and destruction where he found himself a boy-king. He was way in over his head.

As for Cersei's use of the wildfire, yes that literal tactic was not foreseeable. But the idea that a Cersei who had been backed into a figurative and literal corner, with precious few allies and having just lost her trump card in The Mountain due to trial by combat being abolished wouldn't come up with some kind of desperate gambit? Everyone that was betting on Cersei going down in that trial let their guards down before the game was over. That's the mistake I'm talking about. Not that they didn't foresee Cersei blowing up half of Kings Landing, per se
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eobversion1
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by eobversion1 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:39 pm

Spoiler: show
She can use her vag in any way she wants against me.


Not that she would :(
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by El Canuck » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:44 am

GooberBM wrote:I disagree. I think Tommen was looking for someone to give him real guidance. That Marg used her vag to insert herself...I'm typing this seriously I mean it --oh the dirty jokes; but insert herself into Tommen's mind as his most trustworthy person, after his mom warped and coddled him. Then only to have the High Sparrow manipulating him with Faith, something his mother taught him very little about. The kid wanted a safe place in that crazy world of death and destruction where he found himself a boy-king. He was way in over his head.

As for Cersei's use of the wildfire, yes that literal tactic was not foreseeable. But the idea that a Cersei who had been backed into a figurative and literal corner, with precious few allies and having just lost her trump card in The Mountain due to trial by combat being abolished wouldn't come up with some kind of desperate gambit? Everyone that was betting on Cersei going down in that trial let their guards down before the game was over. That's the mistake I'm talking about. Not that they didn't foresee Cersei blowing up half of Kings Landing, per se
We're on the same page with Marge, we're just not seeing eye to eye on her role in Tommen's eyes.

As for Cersei, a mind like Olenna's doesn't overlook a cornered, power-hungry, desperate Cersei. As I said before, the most they could have had a contingency plan for was her throwing a hissy fit and having to be dragged from the Red Keep kicking and screaming after her undead-murder-machine and evil-little-henchman were properly dispatched. Which, they did, knowing the High Sparrow was going to do just that if it came down to it, which he did, by sending his Sparrows to go get her.

Then Wildfire happened. The very thing Jaime killed a King for even trying to use on his own people.
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by GooberBM » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:14 am

When people started to whisper (whisper) about Cersei's kids not being Robert's, she systematically exterminated every black hair/blue eyed bastard in Kings Landing. There certainly are rumors and strong presumptions (though no hard evidence) that Cersei manipulated Robert and/or Ned's circumstances leading to their death (her hands are obviously clean of their actual deaths, but if you were theorizing, she's the link in both of their circumstances, especially if one believes the rumors of her and Jamie). There HAD to have been rumors that Cersei had her and Tommen on the Iron Throne ready to commit suicide during the Battle of Blackwater.

Cersei going to dangerous, reckless, and extreme measures is a known quantity. That nobody assumed she'd do something excessively dangerous, reckless, and extreme is why EVERYBODY died when she made her play. Olenna only survived because Marg got a whiff of a direct threat on her life. The mistake everybody made was not treating Cersei like a cornered animal. They thought she was already down. If it hadn't been the Wildfire, she would have gone for SOMETHING drastic because she was out of plays.

Also, why didn't more people assume there was more Wildfire somewhere, that the Lannisters had their hands on? Where did they think Tyrion got his hands on Wildfire in the first place?

Anyway, the point being that the Tyrells and the Faith Militant both should have been more cautious, you know putting everyone of value in the same unsecured location at the same time. This is why one Cabinet member always gets locked up in a secure location when you're bringing everyone together. Failsafes, man. Gots to have them. And unless Olenna's popping out another baby at her ancient age, she don't count
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by El Canuck » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:01 am

She had a direct hand in King Robert's death, his wine was poisoned at her request. It didn't kill him, no, that was a flaw in her plan, as she didn't account for Robert's size and ability to metabolize poisons (alcohol is a poison, after all) the boar was just a fortunate (for her) occurrence. That was the whole reason that she ensured that Robert's squires were Lannister cousins that she could trust. One of whom was Lancel, who confessed his part in that and all their other shared crimes, which was what Cersei was really going to be in shit for. The incest and adultery with Jaime and later Lancel was one thing, regicide, though? In peacetime? Oh yeah, she had every right to assume that the High Sparrow was giving her to the Stranger.

Ned, well, she had an indirect hand in his death. She, like Sansa, Varys, Petyr and everyone else, thought that Ned was off to the Wall, to renounce his titles and all that and be an honourable non-factor in the rule of the Seven Kingdoms any longer. Ned, in his inner monologues (book) shortly before his death, was preparing for just such an existence himself, thinking about how good it would be to spend time with Benjen again and actually sit down and explain everything to Jon. Cersei had played him out of the game, of that there is no doubt, as ol' Neddy was too honourable by half to even play that game, but she didn't try to kill him. Although she wasn't upset at the result, either way.

Not only was their rumours of Cersei sitting on the Iron Throne ready to kill herself and her son, but Tyrell men were among those who burst into the throne room with Tywin, including Loras himself. It was known.

My guess is that with that big green kaboom on the Blackwater that everyone assumed that Tyrion had used up all the wildfire. On top of that, given the common knowledge among the nobles that Tyrion and Cersei hate one another, I think most would assume that he wouldn't tell her where he pisses, let alone where he keeps a cache of wildfire.

The Tyrell's, Kevan Lannister (who now controlled the Lannister army) and the Faith Militant were prepared for only what they reasonably could expect out of Cersei. They had stripped her of practically all power and influence, aside from Qyburnstein and Qyburnstein's Monster and confined her to a castle. Like I said, they were ready for kicking and screaming and potentially having to put down Qyburn and Undead-Gregor in the process, but no one, absolutely no one, could have predicted that Cersei would have had the means to kill every last person in power in one fell blow. Kill a few? Sure, the Pycelle bit was done without wildfire, even Lancel was maimed before he got blown up, but this is a medieval world and a location populated by people who are still skeptical about the existence of three dragons half a world away. Having a contingency plan for Cersei possibly being able to massacre everyone, when she has no army anymore? That's just not happening. They were prepared for a fight, not...THAT.
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by GooberBM » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:20 pm

That's exactly my point. They made ALL of the worst assumptions about what Cersei was capable of. That's why they got checkmated by something they could never see coming
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by El Canuck » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:49 pm

They weren't the worst assumptions, they were the only assumptions that the Tyrell's, Faith Militant and Kevan could make. Who could have possibly foreseen that there was not only wildfire still in King's Landing after the Battle of the Blackwater, but that Cersei would know about it and have an army of street urchins that readily had access to it? The men who knew about the wildfire cache in the first place were Bronn, Tyrion, possibly Varys and the trigger-itchy pyromancers. The former three hadn't told anyone that was still left in King's Landing's higher-up-circle about it and were in no place that they could have possibly warned about it and the latter just want to blow shit up as it is. There isn't even any gunpowder in that world yet, no one could anticipate a big, intentional explosion capable of wiping out the entire sept from any other source but wildfire (or dragons, which they're still skeptical of, but know full well she doesn't have) and there's no reason to indicate she even has access to it. Even as viewers, the only clue we are given to it this season is a half a second clip of the Mad King saying "burn them all" and Jaime later having a dialogue with Edmure of why he killed Aerys Targaryen. The characters don't even have that. What they have is a declawed Cersei. Desperate? Yes, murderous? Yes, but she has one undead murder machine and a psycho maester at her disposal, Kevan and the Tyrell's each have an army and the Faith Militant have a considerable standing force of armed commoners. It's impossible to expect anyone to have any contingency plan for what she pulled off.
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by GooberBM » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:36 pm

Yeah, they completely, and absolutely, underestimated the resourcefulness of someone who has an undead/reanimated Gregor Clegane standing behind her. That's why the entire Faith Militant, and all of the Tyrells/Lannisters of note got wiped out in one shot, we are in complete agreement there
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by El Canuck » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:24 pm

We're not, though, I'm saying that those in power had no way to anticipate the resources at her disposal outside of the necromancy of Qyburn.
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by El Canuck » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:52 pm

I'm not quite sure what to do tonight with no Game of Thrones to watch...
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by eobversion1 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:15 pm

I don't know what to do tomorrow myself.

SWOT up on my Excel and teaching course I guess.
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by stigsyv1 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:47 am

Today I sit here all alone
Wishing for my Game of Thrones
Monday mornings gave me glee
Watching it on my TV
Cersie ,Arya and Jon Snow
Watching these gave me a warm glow
In a few months time I will be in heaven
When I sit and watch series seven.....
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by eobversion1 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:40 pm

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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by GooberBM » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:16 pm

A delayed wait for basically half a season (in episode numbers). You milk that cow for what it's worth, HBO!
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by eobversion1 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:19 pm

It would appear so. Imagine if it's a Winter release in 2017. Business is about to pick up as JR would say.
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by GooberBM » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:23 pm

Seems like a fall 2017 release would make the most sense, to line up with filming for the final season
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Re: Game Of Thrones

Post by El Canuck » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:39 pm

Seems to be that way. That's gonna be an awful long time without GoT. I hope they don't time the Season 6 DVD release for a month before the season 7 debut. Most likely it will be a Spring 2017 release, but they pushed back the DVD a month this year to better line up with the show, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities.
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