The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by El Canuck » Tue May 24, 2016 8:12 pm

stigsyv1 wrote:I agree that tyrion is more suited to advising a ruler than ruling himself.
I hate sansa stark, I know she has toughened up the past few series but she is still just so annoying.
Now to the question who's death do you think has had the most impact on the state of the iron throne ?
I'll take a-go at answering this one now: Tywin Lannister. Without a shadow of a doubt and in both the books and the show. No one in Westeros cast a bigger shadow in the post-dragon world than Tywin.

The Targs, without dragons for some time, were being seen as less and less of a threat, which led to Robert Baratheon feeling he had a chance at a successful rebellion in the first place. But Tywin, once he rebuilt his families legacies by eradicating the Reyne and Tarbeck families, (the former of which being the basis of the Rains of Castamere, the song that follows Tywin wherever he goes like a morbid theme song) became as feared a figure as could be.

Combine this with his unmatched wealth and penchant for giving loans to the highest ranking people of Westeros, who he could then wrap around his finger, and you have a figure who was king in all but name by the time Bobby B sat the iron throne.

His grip only became surer when Robert died and Joffrey, a boy in both sources, took the throne and Tywin was named Hand of the King. Instead of being obscenely influential, he was outright controlling the seven kingdoms. He was also cunning in ways his oldest two children could not appreciate. Where they were impetuous and impulsive, Tywin was careful and calculating. He also commanded fear in both of them and even Tyrion and he could keep them under his thumb. Even Petyr Baelish and the Tyrells tread carefully in the face of Tywin. When Tyrion killed him, all bets were off and as we saw, the game of thrones descended into chaos practically overnight, as everyone saw Cersei, a crippled Jaime and their offspring as a weak heir to Tywin's legacy of intimidation.

The one time he even looked to be remotely in danger was when he had Robb Stark and the north to contend with and that boiled down to Tywin's army being spread too thin to deal with containing one king while two other Baratheon kings threatened to descend on him at the same time.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by stigsyv1 » Wed May 25, 2016 2:04 am

Nice answer very detailed and makes me rethink tywins role in the whole quest for power and I now see a bigger picture..
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by eobversion1 » Wed May 25, 2016 6:49 am

El Canuck wrote:An Australian born science teacher who up and moves from his home country only to plop himself down in a new country, in Kentucky, a place rife with right-wing, evangelical, blind-faith Christianity. Once there, he begins promoting himself as an evolution-denying preacher who relies on a particular brand of word salad to convince the followers dwelling in the aforementioned religious hotbed that he's someone they ought to listen to. Then, once he gains momentum he gets the millions in funding needed to start his dream theme park, complete with the landlocked ark, built hypocritically by modern conveniences, like power tools, cranes and bolt hangers. He's either a fraud, bilking naive bible-thumpers or a hair-brained idiot who somehow manages to stumble upward. My money is on the former and my basis for that comes from watching his debate with Bill Nye. Ham had a telling look on his face as he delivered his answers of carefully worded rubbish. He didn't need to provide evidence for anything he was saying, he didn't even need to refute what Nye said. All Ham had to do, and he seemed painfully aware of this, was give his followers enough to satisfy their confirmation biases. He lost, on a factual basis, Nye blew him away, however Ham never went into that match with the intention of winning the fight, he just had to play to his fanbase and that was what he did. Even the quotable final salvo, on the question of what evidence could make either man change his mind, Nye gave the more humble and honest answer in that any evidence that can withstand the scientific method could change his mind and I'm personally of the same mindset. Ham gave the answer he needed to give: He won't change his mind, because he believes he's right. In the religion game you can't be open to being wrong, your deity claim has to be the right one and anything to the contrary declared wrong or even blasphemous. That's why evolution is deemed a controversy to begin with: because it conflates with the origin story of the Abrahamic deity. Or at least in most Abrahamic sects and denominations, there are exceptions and I know there are many who subscribe to the Abrahamic deity and believe that evolution can still be a part of it, but the point stands and I digress. Ham has played a very careful game of selling himself and has become filthy rich off the backs of the religious. All from an unknown Australian high-school science teacher who uprooted himself to America and entrenched himself in the growing anti-intellectualism movement and became a semi-famous millionaire. Seems fishy to me.
I expected that you wouldn't give his name a warm welcome. To my mind if there are trees and ice that are scientifically proven to be more than the age that Ken Ham thinks the Earth to be then there's no doubt about it, he's wrong. He's either a snake oil salesman, a bigot or just delusional. I can't say I respect his view if he's objectively wrong. That's the anti-intellectual game, cloud the issue, invent conspiracy theories that cloud people's judgement. Their game isn't to make points or prove them but to cast doubt. Like a defence attorney whose client is clearly guilty. If they can successfully cast doubt then that's seen as proof to their followers that the well thought out and evidence-based argument's of their opponent isn't true. It boggles the mind.

What I'm concerned about is that children are being taught by people like that. It's harmful and dangerous. It stunts our development as a species.

The more time goes on the more this stuff rattles my cage. Instead of talking about ways we can protect the environment, scientifically innovate and eradicate disease we have to argue about if they are even problems in the first place. It's infuriating.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by GooberBM » Wed May 25, 2016 12:19 pm

El Canuck wrote:
stigsyv1 wrote:I agree that tyrion is more suited to advising a ruler than ruling himself.
I hate sansa stark, I know she has toughened up the past few series but she is still just so annoying.
Now to the question who's death do you think has had the most impact on the state of the iron throne ?
I'll take a-go at answering this one now: Tywin Lannister. Without a shadow of a doubt and in both the books and the show. No one in Westeros cast a bigger shadow in the post-dragon world than Tywin.

The Targs, without dragons for some time, were being seen as less and less of a threat, which led to Robert Baratheon feeling he had a chance at a successful rebellion in the first place. But Tywin, once he rebuilt his families legacies by eradicating the Reyne and Tarbeck families, (the former of which being the basis of the Rains of Castamere, the song that follows Tywin wherever he goes like a morbid theme song) became as feared a figure as could be.

Combine this with his unmatched wealth and penchant for giving loans to the highest ranking people of Westeros, who he could then wrap around his finger, and you have a figure who was king in all but name by the time Bobby B sat the iron throne.

His grip only became surer when Robert died and Joffrey, a boy in both sources, took the throne and Tywin was named Hand of the King. Instead of being obscenely influential, he was outright controlling the seven kingdoms. He was also cunning in ways his oldest two children could not appreciate. Where they were impetuous and impulsive, Tywin was careful and calculating. He also commanded fear in both of them and even Tyrion and he could keep them under his thumb. Even Petyr Baelish and the Tyrells tread carefully in the face of Tywin. When Tyrion killed him, all bets were off and as we saw, the game of thrones descended into chaos practically overnight, as everyone saw Cersei, a crippled Jaime and their offspring as a weak heir to Tywin's legacy of intimidation.

The one time he even looked to be remotely in danger was when he had Robb Stark and the north to contend with and that boiled down to Tywin's army being spread too thin to deal with containing one king while two other Baratheon kings threatened to descend on him at the same time.
All of that to die, undignified, on the chamber pot. Only Father Time is undefeated, yo
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by El Canuck » Wed May 25, 2016 6:22 pm

stigsyv1 wrote:Nice answer very detailed and makes me rethink tywins role in the whole quest for power and I now see a bigger picture..
Thank you.
GooberBM wrote:All of that to die, undignified, on the chamber pot. Only Father Time is undefeated, yo
GRRM engineered that one to perfection.
eobversion1 wrote:
I expected that you wouldn't give his name a warm welcome. To my mind if there are trees and ice that are scientifically proven to be more than the age that Ken Ham thinks the Earth to be then there's no doubt about it, he's wrong. He's either a snake oil salesman, a bigot or just delusional. I can't say I respect his view if he's objectively wrong. That's the anti-intellectual game, cloud the issue, invent conspiracy theories that cloud people's judgement. Their game isn't to make points or prove them but to cast doubt. Like a defence attorney whose client is clearly guilty. If they can successfully cast doubt then that's seen as proof to their followers that the well thought out and evidence-based argument's of their opponent isn't true. It boggles the mind.

What I'm concerned about is that children are being taught by people like that. It's harmful and dangerous. It stunts our development as a species.

The more time goes on the more this stuff rattles my cage. Instead of talking about ways we can protect the environment, scientifically innovate and eradicate disease we have to argue about if they are even problems in the first place. It's infuriating.
I think it's outright harmful for children to be raised in an environment where questioning the world around them and dissuasion towards intellectualism is the norm.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by stigsyv1 » Thu May 26, 2016 4:54 am

Do you believe that the power of social media in sports and the general celebrity world has made it to easy to cause harm without the fear of reprisals for actions against said groups.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by eobversion1 » Sat May 28, 2016 6:35 pm

Which is a bigger fantasy ASOIAF or conservative talk radio?
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by El Canuck » Sat May 28, 2016 8:16 pm

stigsyv1 wrote:Do you believe that the power of social media in sports and the general celebrity world has made it to easy to cause harm without the fear of reprisals for actions against said groups.
Could you clarify this question? Cause harm how? What type of harm?
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by El Canuck » Sat May 28, 2016 8:23 pm

eobversion1 wrote:Which is a bigger fantasy ASOIAF or conservative talk radio?
Conservative talk radio. Rush Limbaugh's world is one where he's a knight in shining armour tilting at a field of strawmen. Then again, I see things like his episode of Family Guy and I have to wonder just how sincere he really is in his beliefs and I don't know which I find more troubling: a sincere, pompous dolt who believes in the rubbish he peddles or a sociopath who can peddle that same rubbish knowing how badly it poisons the wells of information and common sense.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by eobversion1 » Sun May 29, 2016 10:30 am

Are there any principled conservatives that you have respect for?

I have to say that even though I disagree with them on pretty much everything that both Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have successfully kept their noses clean of the stink of Trump this year.

The tories in Britain as well even though they wouldn't be my party they're principled people.

I used to think the same of Marco Rubio but he sold his soul to the devil horribly. Same with John McCain after Trump insulted him like that over being a war veteran in a draft that he dodged.

Where I draw the line with conservatism is where they want to exploit the very worst in people, preying on fears and prejudices while dog whistling at fringe groups.

Your thoughts?
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by El Canuck » Sun May 29, 2016 6:35 pm

Tom Marshall, retired PC Premier and longtime MHA on Newfoundland's west coast, springs to mind. He's about the only one I can think of off the top of my head. There's not a single one from the rest of the local Tories or Harper's Conservatives or the American Republicans that I can think on that I have any respect for. I don't know enough about British politics to comment one way or the other.

I would have said John McCain normally, but his willingness to get in bed with Trump ruined all hope of that.

Paul Ryan crosses me as utterly sociopathic. Perhaps it's the dead look in his eyes or his monotone speech pattern or that his face never seems to carry any expression, regardless of the gravity or humour of a situation, but the man crosses me as entirely unfeeling.

As for conservatism in general, I think you would be hard pressed to find a handful that even known what the word conservatism stands for anymore. For a system that promotes conserving money they tend to be the biggest spenders and worst at balancing their nation's finances. The thing I find most unsettling with both the federal Canadian Conservative party and the American Republican party is that both seem to be entirely bought and paid for by lobby groups and corporations. They all spout the same denials of climate change, the effects of sensible gun legislation and the benefits universal health care. It's as if they are not so much politicians as they are political mercenaries. Their allegiance is bought by the highest bidder. While mercenaries as a concept isn't a terrible idea, the thought of them being elected officials in influential positions is as terrifying as it is absurd, yet here we are, with grown men and women doing the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" every time anyone questions them on something they're paid to support.

Now, I'm not saying that left wingers aren't guilty of the same thing, they are and have been, but it is far less prevalent. With Conservatives/Republicans it seems that to be one of them, you simply must sell yourself out on the first day you put your name on the ballot or be relegated to irrelevancy.

The level of deceit that goes along with that is hard to stomach as a spectator, let alone go along with as a principled, moral person. The dishonesty and denial in things like the environmental impact of fracking and oil sands drilling alone are nauseating. Any person in good conscience can't mislead the public like that, it takes a corrupt, sociopathic group to carry that out on a regular basis.

Then there's the religious aspect of both their ideologies and their hierarchy. In the American system especially, you simply have to be Christian. There's practically no exception to this rule. In Canada the CPC's at least had representation from some eastern religions. Atheism is practically heresy, but they're not totally intolerant of Hindus or Sikhs at least. As for their ideologies, they have completely hijacked Christianity to the point where they vocal minority in the anti-LGBT, anti-choice, anti-science movements have supplanted the silent majority. Because let's face it, most Christians are entirely apathetic to all three of those anti's, if not open to them. It's a very vocal minority in the Evangelical Baptist vein that have risen to the top like some foul, odorous cream to redefine Christian values in the late 20th century into this century. For all of that, it feels like the religiously motivated debates they propose are entirely diversionary. I have a hard time believing that most elected Republicans actually care that much about the sanctity of marriage (hypocritically, I might add, as they've got no problem with multiple divorces, which Christian scripture most certainly does, even more so than gay marriage.) or a woman's right to choose if she wants to abort a pregnancy or not or the age of the earth and how its inhabitants came to be. No more than they care how many people die of gun violence or unclean drinking water or from a lack of access to healthcare.

They care about getting paid, they care about themselves and fuck the rest of us.

Greed: it's their ideology, their religion and their moral compass all rolled into one package.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by eobversion1 » Sun May 29, 2016 7:31 pm

I didn't expect such a thorough response. I'm with you on most of it. It's just to me at the moment when Trump is put alongside them Ryan, Romney and McCain look like knights in shining armour. I mean he's a dumpster fire of a presidential candidate that makes everyone around him look principled and respectable. Then again they created that monster.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by El Canuck » Sun May 29, 2016 7:47 pm

They absolutely have created that monster and though Romney seems to have gone quiet and Ryan is still haggling over his price, they are all getting in line to back him for president, their country be damned. They would rather support a dangerous, reckless, hate-mongering, fear-mongering, racist man who rather than admit they fucked up royally and support a candidate with a (D) next to their name. It's atrocious behaviour from not only grown adults, but elected officials in the countries highest offices.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by stigsyv1 » Mon May 30, 2016 4:28 am

the psychological harm from the nasty comments caused by trolling and also the fappening pic leak of cells intimate pictures.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by eobversion1 » Tue May 31, 2016 12:05 pm

Do you think all geopolitical conflicts in the world could be avoided without religious belief or do you think national identity/class structure is a stronger factor?
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by El Canuck » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:19 pm

stigsyv1 wrote:Do you believe that the power of social media in sports and the general celebrity world has made it to easy to cause harm without the fear of reprisals for actions against said groups.
stigsyv1 wrote:the psychological harm from the nasty comments caused by trolling and also the fappening pic leak of cells intimate pictures.
I suppose it has. The internet has connected us all, and that all includes the worst of society as well as the best. Even the most benevolent and innocuous of things can be used for terrible purposes. Trolling someone, whether famous or not, is malevolent in nature, inherently. To desire to do such is detestable behaviour, but anonymity emboldens even the most sniveling of cowards.
eobversion1 wrote:Do you think all geopolitical conflicts in the world could be avoided without religious belief or do you think national identity/class structure is a stronger factor?
It would be naive to think that there would be absolutely no conflict without religion, however, I have found that it is the leading catalyst of conflict throughout the world. It feels to me as though there are two types that rely on it: those who don't really believe the shit the peddle and use it as an as a means to their ends. If my hypothesis about Ken Ham is correct he would fall into this category. The other type I would argue are more dangerous, they're the ones who truly believe that their religious scriptures are correct, allowing otherwise abhorrent behaviour to be justified in their mind because their scriptures either blatantly condone it or are vague enough to be interpreted as such. The first group may well be sociopathic, but they have enough awareness to at least want to keep themselves from repercussions from their behaviour. The second group, though, tend to be far more unhinged and emotionally unstable.

Without religion the first group would have a more difficult time covering their asses in their exploitative behaviour. Those in the second group wouldn't be emboldened by the prospect of their terrible deeds appealing to a deity or that their self-endangerment would bring them to not only an afterlife, but one that rewards their behaviour. Not saying either wouldn't exist, but I would think that it would greatly curtail much of it.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by GooberBM » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:48 pm

You don't think resource allocation/gathering/dominating is a bigger source of conflict than religion? Is it at least on the same level to you?
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by El Canuck » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:35 pm

Referring back to my original response, I think that the first type of person, the one who just uses religion as a means to an end, would almost certainly be using it for personal gain. However, if you look through the books of history you will find that religion has been the biggest cause of conflict all throughout. Even if it is just a means of drawing a line in the sand between the conflicting sides.
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by GooberBM » Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:54 pm

I asked in terms of conflicts like European Colonial expansion that took place over hundreds of years, up until and including the last century. In a vast amount of the conflicts of that time, the primary motivator and agitator of nations was the need to acquire more resources (first fighting in Europe, then carrying those battles and wars into foreign lands as the nations in power expanded). Religion was used as much as a tool for those expansions and battles, as much as it was the primary cause of conflict. At least that's how I see it
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Re: The Ask El Canuck a Question Game

Post by El Canuck » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:18 pm

I made a point of saying that there were exceptions to the rule, the European colonial expansion would be one such exception.

As I said, you wouldn't eliminate conflict entirely without religion, people are assholes, that is a universal truth.
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