WWE Survivor Series 2016 - Discussion Thread

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GooberBM
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Re: WWE Survivor Series 2016 - Discussion Thread

Post by GooberBM » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:59 pm

Red_And_Yellow wrote:While I agree that those things can draw someone to stay with the Network, I don't view those as draws to the Network itself.
So you agree those things can be draws, then deny the conclusion that they are draws.

I...

You know...

Nope, going home
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Red_And_Yellow
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Re: WWE Survivor Series 2016 - Discussion Thread

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:39 pm

Until we get viewership numbers for this kind of stuff, we honestly have no idea what draws to the Network or not. But I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with your reply.

My theory is that people don't become a subscriber to the Network for NXT or the Cruiserweight Challenge. Just because something doesn't cause someone to subscribe, doesn't mean it can't influence a person to REMAIN a subscriber. If you don't want to differentiate between those two ideas, then fine, but don't try to misconstrue my idea as some bullshit.
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Re: WWE Survivor Series 2016 - Discussion Thread

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:49 pm

Aftermath wrote:Dont forget about the Video Game, Goldberg DVD, and merchandise. This is not just about the Network. It was Vince who decided to do this at Survivor Series instead of Wrestlemaning, Giving Golberg no time to prepare.

2 minutes of Lesnar squashing Goldberg would of flush that all down the drain. Lesar is established right now and can easily bounce back.
Right, they're solely reliant on guys who don't wrestle full time to buoy merchandise pushes and tickets. It's pretty amazing how far WWE has fallen into irrelevancy. 4 years ago, they were getting over 4 million viewers on 2 hour RAWs. Since 3 hour RAWs have begun in 2012, they've lost over 1 million viewers. They have to give away shows like Wrestlemania for free on the Network to get people to subscribe.

The company isn't in some free fall that's on the brink of going out of business, but they're a declining monopoly that has basically ruined any chance for competition in North America for pro wrestling. They're an entity all to themselves and they're their own worst enemy. To build Brock for 3 1/2 years as an unstoppable monster, to then just decimate at Survivor Series against Goldberg, who will maybe wrestle 1 or 2 more matches is lunacy.

People laugh at the idea that Vince hasn't lost it, but it's pretty clear he's not looking out for the long term for the company. They are shuffling week to week and can never get together a coherent story from week to week. These writers are overworked and the wrestlers are at Vince's mercy. It's a terrible combination for a lack of creativity and unhappiness among the guys.
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Re: WWE Survivor Series 2016 - Discussion Thread

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:52 pm

Brock killed Dean Ambrose, Randy Orton, Big Show, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, John Cena, CM Punk and Triple H, all to lose to 52 year old Goldberg. Then they look at guys like Roman, "man why don't they get over?" Hm, jesus, maybe it's because ya numb skulls don't build active guys up to take monsters like Brock Lesnar.
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Re: WWE Survivor Series 2016 - Discussion Thread

Post by GooberBM » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:28 pm

I'm not interested in a protracted back-and-forth so I'm going to say one thing and then be done with this conversation:

I do not see any good reason to make a distinction between what draws people to the Network and what draws people to renew their subscription. In fact, I think the latter is more important than the former. Mostly because (disregarding expansion into new markets) they have tapped out their ability to reach the "hardcore" wrestling fans. The Network has been around long enough that any hardcore wrestling fan has made their decision about subscribing one way or another, and aren't likely to flip in either direction.

In the markets where they have basically maximized that portion of the audience, the important thing to do is reach out to people who may have an interest in WWE programming but aren't readily knowledgeable about the Network. That's why the free month exists. That's why non-wrestling programming like Holy Foley and such exists. That's why they archive everything from old Raws to Total Divas. That's why they bring in part-timers who have name value with people who either never watched wrestling regularly, or haven't in 10-15 years.

They are using things like PPVs and name value part-timers like Brock or The Rock, or Sting as ways to get people's foot in the door of the Network, and having a diverse selection of content is what they use to keep them there. But if the content isn't a draw, then no amount of free months of the Network would be enough to move the needle.

The value in the part-timers is, as it has been every time, to get as many eyeballs that aren't usually watching wrestling to do just that. This is why they let Brock Lesnar fight at UFC 200, to get his name and by definition the WWE's name out there in as mainstream a way as possible. Now Goldberg, who has some name value left to him, has come in and DOMINATED the guy who just fought in UFC. They've got a money rematch now, and it was the kind of definitive result that can get attention in the mainstream using their collective name power and their relationship with ESPN.

And all of that can get more eyes on the Network, and if someone checks it out and gets hooked into old Raws from when they were a kid, or enjoy 205 Live and NXT, or just likes watching trashy reality tv like Total Divas they have a reason to stick around. And that's what will hook them in to start paying for it.

If WWE really thought Raw and SD Live were the way to hook people into the Network, they'd have tried to figure out a way to break their contract with Hulu so they could put their live episodic television up on the Network the day after it airs. But the weekly tv isn't what is going to get people onto the Network or sticking around for it. They already know that, which is why they don't pursue that. And they are pursuing logical strategies to keep making the Network successful. Which is why it is
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Re: WWE Survivor Series 2016 - Discussion Thread

Post by Red_And_Yellow » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:22 am

There is value in part timers, I never said there wasn't. The Rock is always good business for them, we'll see if Goldberg pushed Network subscribers when they release their 4th quarter numbers.

It isn't a sustainable long term business model to rely on guys who won't be there. They rely on part timers to a degree that hinders their overall product.
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Re: WWE Survivor Series 2016 - Discussion Thread

Post by Big slim » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:06 pm

Just have to say, I've missed you two going back and forth!

I'd say more than likely, Goldberg being in the Rumble will more than likely set up his Mania program. I'd bet money on him facing Rusev and giving our hero a massive rub and possible win. I'd say maybe Reigns, Strowman, or a wild card like Jericho would also be on the table.
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