Random Questions

Discuss anything about the WWF/WWE past or present.
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Greg_McNeish
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Re: Random Questions

Post by Greg_McNeish » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:08 pm

Worth it.
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Funkmaster-T
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Re: Random Questions

Post by Funkmaster-T » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:35 pm

Not so much a "Random Question" as much as a "Random Thought" but I figued this would be the best place to put this.

And let me preface this by saying it is still just in the thought process stage...still putting this together in my head but wanted to share this with all of you and hear your thoughts...

I've been thinking a lot about the whole situation around Reigns and how, a year ago, when Bryan got hurt, everyone was all behind Reigns but how, now that WWE is "forcing" him on the public (not necessarily the way I feel...but what we are hearing). This is also very true of the way people feel about Cena. We see a huge mixed reaction for Cena and, I would imagine, Reigns is likely getting a very similar response (or will once the Rumble Reaction calms down a bit). HHH mentioned in the podcast that while he is getting loudly boo'd on TV, he is getting cheered at house shows.

This mixed reaction is largely an after effect from when, during the Attitude Era, the audience was no longer cheering for the typical good guy wrestling has always had as the face of the company...The "Superman" character. Samartino, Backlund Hogan, Cena...each evolved into their own but, ultimately, cut from the same cloth.

During the Attitude Era, we started getting the Anti-Hero. People stopped cheering for who they were supposed to cheer for and began cheering for who they wanted to cheer for. We also got a look "behind the curtain" that had been so guarded. This was new to most fans, therefore very exciting. Wrestling, and society, was in a transitional period and, at the time was in a place that they were able to roll with these changes and the transition from Superheroes to Anti-heroes resulted in unparralleled heights.

We are again at a time when society is changing due to the technological revolution and fans have greater access to information than ever before. They are once again not accepting the typical face/heel dynamic and cheering for who they want to.

This made me wonder if the face/heel dynamic which has been the format of Professional Wrestling for...well, forever...needs to change.

I wonder if a system would work much like in other "real" sports (Forgive the use of this term but I use it to delineate the difference not to mock or question the validity of pro wrestling). In the NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB, etc, every team is both face and heel - mostly based on where they are playing - home or away - but also based on team loyalty. This would likely not be based on regional differences (although maybe it would be - make a bigger deal about where they are from) So, while I may root for Cena or Reigns, you might choose Ambrose and Wyatt. Someone else might cheer for Lesnar and Rollins...It doesn't really matter. Everyone is a "Fan Favourite" and everyone is a "Heel". You would likely see more "dueling" chants (Lets go Cena/Cena Sucks).

As I said, this is just the beginning of a thought and I'm not sure I am explaining it clearly as I don't know if it is fully formed in my head yet...just wanted to get the basic idea out and see what you thought...
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Re: Random Questions

Post by Jama7301 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:42 pm

TNA tried that, with people changing Face/Heel depending on their feud or turning them after a few months. It was something wrestling fans picked apart.

This is sort of the crux of the problem, these ideas sound good on paper, but execution is a lot tougher. That, and wrestling fans can be hard as FUCK to please.

It would also fuck with storytelling to a degree too. If you think there are plot inconsistancies now, wait til people change how they act based on who they're facing and where they're located. Example, in City A - Reigns and Rollins get cheered. They team together, and they team up through, say 4 cities after, through city E. At Cities F, G, H, and I though, the fans are split, and you have them face each other. For the fan watching at home, it's sort of jarring.

This sort of shift would take an entire generation, maybe two, of wrestling fans to be reprogrammed. There might be indies who are trying this out, with their smaller crowds, but on such a large scale, something like this doesn't feel like it would work out well.
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Big slim
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Re: Random Questions

Post by Big slim » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:50 am

Hmm, interesting thoughts Funk and Jama.

I think that for all the positives the Attitude Era brought (IMHO), big money to the company, creating massive new stars in Austin and Rock, breathing new life into wrestling and pretty much saving WWE from the down period of the mid-90s; I mean its the time period that I became a fan of wrestling so I will always have a soft spot for it, but one negative to me (it will depend on who you are on how big of an issue you think it is) is that it helped bring an end to kayfabe. Now WCW had a lot to do with it as well, but I am primarily talking about WWE since it is the product I watched the most (maybe Nucks or McNeish or someone who watched WCW more could go into it).

The lines between reality and story got blurred and as technology and sites like Wrestleview came along, us fans got more and more knowledge about the ins and outs of the wrestling world and, with that we all got a little more, for lack of a better word, arrogant with what we knew and some of us began to think we knew more than the people running the show.
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El Canuck
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Re: Random Questions

Post by El Canuck » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:33 am

WCW were guilty of that as well, but it wasn't so much deliberate with them (Well, sometimes, like I recall Nash on commentary once for a match going on about how good of a booker he was and dropping what was pretty much only insider lingo back then, like calling wrestlers 'workers' and such) as it was like the guy who trips over a plug on a studio set and knocks down the wall, breaking the illusion of the sitcom that's filming.

Part of the thing with keeping Kayfabe alive over the years was having a tightly run TV show. Taping them for later airing was the easiest way to do that, as it allowed editing before the product went out. With live TV like PPV's and Nitro and later Raw, you have to keep it that much tighter to keep the illusion going. The commentators are big part of that, as they have to be able to explain away botches and keep the focus of the TV viewers on the right things and away from others. Ross and Lawler were good at that, Monsoon and Heenan were good at that. Tony Schiavone, Larry Zybysko, Mike Tenay and Bobby Heenan? Not so much. Now in Heenan's defense, especially towards the end of his run in WCW, he was all out of shits to give. You could tell by how little he actually cared about interacting with Tony Schiavone and how much of his humour was Don Rickles-esque one liners directed at the wrestlers. The other three though, were bad for letting the giveaways slip with either little or no explanation or some pretty face-palm worthy explanations. Especially Schiavone, who I found came across as looking to be as dumb as a bag of doorknobs most nights. WCW also had some famous slip ups like the time Bryan Clark (Adam Bomb in WWF and Wrath in WCW) was chasing Chris Jericho outside and they ran past the cameras and thought the segment was over and just sort of slowed down and walked back to the building all casually. Meanwhile, the segment was still running, live, I might add. Russo also had a bad habit of trying to use legit backstage heat as segments or creating false backstage heat to feed to the dirt sheets for storylines. Because he assumed that everyone was a dirt sheet reader. Which confused the heck out of those who weren't, which was still most of the audience. So while WCW didn't do themselves any favours, they mostly (aside from Russo) didn't TRY to expose kayfabe.

But then again I feel like kayfabe was actually exposed by Vinny Mac himself during the steroid scandals in the early to mid 90's when he was finally forced to come clean and reveal the worlds worst kept secret: That wrestling is fake. Even though this was no secret by any stretch, it still felt like the roof was off the whole thing.
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Big slim
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Re: Random Questions

Post by Big slim » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:27 pm

It seems like once a little bit was let out, WWF was like "fuck it" and kinda ran away with it. I never got the need or fascination of people or fans wanting to know some unnecessary or unimportant backstage stuff, like a wrestler's real name or who books the show, or crap like that. It really added nothing to the show or anyone's enjoyment.

I also think that's why I didn't care to much about CM Punk's "pipebomb" or his time as a face afterwards because to me, it felt a little too insider heavy.
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Little Jimmy
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Re: Random Questions

Post by Little Jimmy » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:44 pm

DOES ANYONE HERE HAVE A FREAKIN' PROBLEM WITH SID? :x
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Re: Random Questions

Post by El Canuck » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:23 pm

Big slim wrote:It seems like once a little bit was let out, WWF was like "fuck it" and kinda ran away with it. I never got the need or fascination of people or fans wanting to know some unnecessary or unimportant backstage stuff, like a wrestler's real name or who books the show, or crap like that. It really added nothing to the show or anyone's enjoyment.

I also think that's why I didn't care to much about CM Punk's "pipebomb" or his time as a face afterwards because to me, it felt a little too insider heavy.
"Fuck it" was basically the mantra of WWF at the time.
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Re: Random Questions

Post by Maher » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:41 am

Little Jimmy wrote:DOES ANYONE HERE HAVE A FREAKIN' PROBLEM WITH SID? :x
He should be in the Hall of Fame i don't know why he isn't in it yet
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isrs4life
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Re: Random Questions

Post by isrs4life » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:41 pm

Do you care about wrestlers wearing jeans and a tank top and one wearing cargo pants and
a bullet proof vest to be unique all I see is John Cena changing his shorts and not matching it up
with his newest t'shirts. I think Roman Reigns would look great in tights not sure what to put for
Dean Ambrose he sorta looks cool in jeans and a tanktop but they should change roman reigns
god it be nice seeing him with a new look and entrance music debut at wrestlemania.
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isrs4life
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Re: Random Questions

Post by isrs4life » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:37 pm

We havnt seen Bubba Ray Dudley since the royal rumble match will he come back
after wrestlemania to start his 2nd run in wwe I sure like him getting his bully ray
character a new start?
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El Canuck
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Re: Random Questions

Post by El Canuck » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:46 pm

I think that was a one time appearance, like DDP and the Boogeyman.
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Little Jimmy
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Re: Random Questions

Post by Little Jimmy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:59 pm

Am I the only one who is kind of freaked out by DDP's posture? It's almost like he does a little too much yoga, he looks like a fucking alien, it just doesn't seem natural.
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stigsyv1
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Re: Random Questions

Post by stigsyv1 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:53 pm

I hope bubba ray does come back full time he can be a good asset to the upper mid card scene and even have a crack at a ppv main event.
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meta
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Re: Random Questions

Post by meta » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:27 pm

So, having completely avoided TNA like the plague, was the Bully Ray thing worth a damn? Did he work as a singles wrestler?

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Re: Random Questions

Post by stigsyv1 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:59 pm

Yes he did work he was good on the mic and even better in the ring
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isrs4life
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Re: Random Questions

Post by isrs4life » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:14 pm

I see Rhyno's back with wwe but as an nxt wrestler will he find his way back
on the roster is he that much better its been a decade since we last saw him
but will he be back?
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meta
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Re: Random Questions

Post by meta » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:05 pm

No. Rhyno is still terrible. He should go away.

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Little Jimmy
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Re: Random Questions

Post by Little Jimmy » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:02 am

He should gore away.
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meta
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Re: Random Questions

Post by meta » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:58 am

Touche.

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